= Moderate 108-106 Deg. by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. Around 70 percent of muscle-car performance cams fall into this range. = Tight Below 104 Deg. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. Your email address will not be published. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Thanks again. Some prefer a narrow powerband, and some prefer the broader one. . An RV or towing camshaft, which is considered a mild performance or an economy cam, will often have a narrower LSA, between 112 and 114 degrees. 108 Lobe Separation These are my motors specs 1979 - 347 Stroker 10:1 Compression Holley 670 Street Avenger or a Holley 650 (I have both) Roush 200 Cylinder Heads (minor head work) 1.6 Roller Rockers Shorty BBK Headers 373 Rear End 5 Speed Transmission Cross Gap Intake (Power Band 1500-6500) FlowMaster Dual Exhaust (of course no Cats) MSD 6Al So, you can enjoy a mighty acceleration power at 110 LSA. I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. Bad idea in my view. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. With the first cam loaded in the engine (the 101 LSA) Westech's Steve Brul made three dyno pulls, the average of which was saved to compare to the next cam. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the RPM range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the RPM range. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts any input is appreciated guys, thanks. The article was called "Separation of Power" and they tested 5 cams ranged from 106 to 114 LSA. Kevko baffled oil pan & Milidon windage tray. Equipped with the 120-degree (LSA) cam, the hybrid stroker produced 570 hp at 6,200 rpm and 535 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm. It will also give you a smoother idle and probably even better gas mileage. 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I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. That was just a glimpse of the information you were looking for. I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. Pontiac 326 Vs Chevy 327 Differences & Similarities. Chuck Lawrence of Jon Kaase Racing Engines was asked to give a 520ci BBF a Pro Stock sound, so he went with a 108 LSA in place of a more conventional 112 LSA. 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. The 290 advertised duration and 114 lobe separation would contribute to a lazy power curve. So, which is better? That notion is completely false. 108: 110: 112: 114 . I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. Yeah but do the experiment on the dyno and tell me your intuition is correct. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. by SStrokerAce Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:22 am, Post by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That way you can discuss what you want from the engine and how changes in LSA or any of the other specs will affect how the engine performs. Looking at 108vs. by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It will have slightly higher vacuum at idle, feel smoother through the power curve but have a bit less midrange. However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. JavaScript is disabled. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. "When you've properly tuned a performance motor, you create high- and low-pressure waves in the intake and exhaust that help cylinder filling," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. That is no accident. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. These issues can often be worked through by an advanced tuner, but always present a challenge and compromise in tuning strategy. The higher the compression and the higher you try and rev it, the more it will like a wider lobe center. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. Because the lobes are closer together on the 101 LSA cam, the intake closing point is advanced (closes earlier) and the piston has more time to build compressionexactly what the gauge showed. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. My lift will be about .580" intake and exhaust, with about 230/236 duration with a 1.7 rocker ratio, utilizing a Jesel shaft rocker system. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by, http://www.webcamshafts.com/cam_glossary.html, http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter haft/3.htm, Webcam 86A 108LC w/1.5 vs 86B 112LC w/1.3s. I though my car would have a nice rough idle with the solid cam with a tight LSA I put in my car, its go a slight lope to it, but it pulls hard. The tighter the lobe separation angle, the peakier the power curve will be, confirms Bolander. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. It is the angle that separates the intake and exhaust lobe for a particular cylinder, and is measured in camshaft degrees. However, in application, there is a lot more to consider. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . LSA is a result of valve timing events. 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. Torsion Beam Vs Multi Link: Who Wins the Battle? BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. So, sit tight back and explore. Ultimately, it makes the 110 LSA an oil-consuming LSA. 110 for sure. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. Elle concerne 264 taxons des degrs divers. This has been my long time understanding! 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. thanks. I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshaft and Lifter Kits CL120325-08. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? "When the low-pressure wave in the exhaust reflects into the intake, the pressure delta actually helps pull air and fuel into the cylinder. It a 355. thanks in advance. This is why the LS series, and many other modern engines, can make great power on top and bottom with wide LSA camshafts and why a plethora of factory cylinder heads are flowing near (or above) 300 cfm. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. The takeaway is simple on the surface: A tighter LSA makes more low-end and peak torque at the expense of just a few top-end ponies. = Extremely Tight . A 110-degree lobe separation angle means that the peak opening points of the intake and exhaust lobes are 110 degrees apart. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. Although both wide (112-116) and narrow (102-110) lobe separation angles do have an effect on overlap, it's still possible to get a lot of overlap with very wide lobe separation angle cams. dont sound like a verry street friendly motor butany thoughts? 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Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. The 30-30 Duntov is on the high end of the duration recommendation. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. Changing the lobe separation angle changes the amount of overlap that exists during the time the intake and exhaust valves are both open, echoes Doug Patton of Pro Line Race Engines. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. This wave tuning is what helps performance engines achieve volumetric efficiencies of more than 100 percent. This is one of the many reasons why Clay Smith Cams always recommends degreeing your camshaft in using the Lobe Center Method. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. Required fields are marked *. The custom cams we selected all featured 0.624-inch lift (both intake and exhaust) and a 232/242-degree duration split. Part Number: HRS-CL120325-08. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. And better gas mileage. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. 08 Additional components used to build the stroker included a set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, ARP head studs, and a new oil pump. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. JavaScript is disabled. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Lobe Separation Angle "LSA "Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 17 of 17 Posts . If you take any of the . I believe you have got the idea of what you were seeking. I've heard similar cams (only about 5*'s off) and they have a nice rumble to them. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. To demonstrate changes to lobe separation in action, we ordered three camshafts from Comp Cams, all ground with identical lift (0.541 intake and 0.537 exhaust) and duration (230 intake and 236 exhaust) but with three different LSAs: a 101, a 107, and a 113. Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. However, these rules are not absolute. But, the internal processings are much more complicated. If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. A few other major and, Read More Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When AcceleratingContinue, Your email address will not be published. But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. The 114o lobe will add a lot more vacuum at idle. The only reason I . Aug 20, 2006. The lobe separation angle or LSA is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. It is possible to advance and retard the timing events, but the distance between the centerline of the lobes will remain constant. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Disclaimer: Remember to always consult with an expert first before trying anything at home. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust.

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